Suggestion Create new position w limited mod powers

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Bugs' started by Repomeister, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    First off, I am not bucking for this new position - I have been on this server less than a year.

    But in that time I have noticed trolls and/or griefers come on the server and run wild for a crazy amount of time before a mod came online to ban them.

    It would be nice if you created a new position to remedy this. This new position need have no indication whatsoever (as far as colored names or titles or anything) that a person holds it. The position's responsibilities would be limited to 1 thing: Temporarily suspending a user until a moderator can look at the evidence and then take whatever action is necessary.

    A user with this position would have to take screenshots of the chat that contains the trolling to show a moderator when they came back online. Abuse of this power would be itself ban-able. If a mod ever unsuspended a user rather than banning them then the mini-mod or whatever this new position would be called would no longer hold this new position (if the mod feels the right thing to do is remove the ability).

    So the worst that could happen would be a trusted member here being given this authority and then misusing it. But the longest they could misuse it would be until a mod came online, saw the temp suspend list with no supporting evidence, unsuspend those users and remove the power from the mini-mod who did that. Maybe ban the mini-mod. But this downside is very unlikely to happen.

    The best that could happen is that within seconds 24/7 trollers are shut down.

    There are several well trusted folks on this server who could be granted this new ability and between them all 24/7 coverage is a very real possibility.
  2. Toaster

    Toaster Active Member

    Don't see a purpose tbh...well thought out, but pointless.
  3. Sammie_gaga

    Sammie_gaga Moderator

    I think the only problem with this idea would be trusting players to do what's right and not just temp ban their friend, or ban someone for silly reasons. I can honestly see it happening. But helper mods has been suggested by players before. So who knows.
  4. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    Tha
    That is why their temp ban is reviewed by a mod who would remove the temp ban power if the mod didn't agree with the reason for the temp ban.
  5. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    The purpose is to have 24/7 coverage of the chat with trusted people who can instantly block the trolls.
  6. Toaster

    Toaster Active Member

    The purpose is understood, but you're basically just creating new moderators when none are needed.
  7. Ontvlambaar

    Ontvlambaar Pizza addict Staff Member

    Hi Repo, thanks for your suggestion. We're currently seeing how we can prevent people from spamming (offensive) stuff on the server. With the return of @Konachaan, we have a better mod coverage. With this, we should be able to tackle any issues quicker than before.
  8. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    If none were needed trolls wouldn't be able to post offensive stuff for such long periods of time. And these stealth minimods or whatever would only have the ability to temp suspend users. NO special title or name color, no teleport power, no ghosting, no ip lookup - nothing except be able to flag a user who would then be suspended until an actual mod reviewed the situation. Mods do MUCH more than just ban chat trolls.
  9. rwsender

    rwsender Well-Known Member

    *pops head up*

    I understand your frustration, I have pages of screenshots of reports of spammers, advertisers and god knows what else. While I have now grown quite a bit since I used to play here(All I play is ArmA 3 now) one thing I have learned: Trolls need fed. We have a saying on the RP community I play on: Record - Report - Deport. It basically means that if you don't report it, nothing will happen. It's very hard for any server to have 100% mod coverage due to timezones typically resulting in people with good ping playing!

    VW has a history of only having the HIGHEST standard of moderating. I applied several times during my time here and I can happily look back now and say that I wasn't ready. More staff ranks = More issues. You can have a great impact moderating the community by helping new players, ensuring they understand the rules and discouraging people feeding trolls. That and reporting it on the forums/on the discord channel(I think I seen that modreq channel??)
    Sammie_gaga and Toaster like this.
  10. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    This all makes sense and I agree with it all except the implication that "more staff ranks = more issues" would have the net result of worsening the player experience at VW (because, presumably, if you believed it wouldn't have the net result of worsening the overall experience here at VW it wouldn't have been presented).

    I really wasn't suggesting more "staff ranks". This is why multiple times I suggested that there be no new titles or name colors or any responsibilities other than temp banning. Nobody on chat would even know who did it. But when a mod came he could see that, for example, sammie_gaga temp banned KewlUzer_1337_HackerzSkillz and here is the screenshot.

    I personally think this system would reduce the amount of time trolls had free run of the chat system. I agree to disagree with those who think that either this system would not reduce the time trolls spent on the chat *or* the overhead and potential consequences of such a system would overshadow its benefits.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  11. Toaster

    Toaster Active Member

    I'd rather see an attempt to censor words and phrases that can be used in chat along with variations that users may attempt to input to get around the censor.
    Come play Escape from Tarkov and Rainbow Six Siege.
    One_EyeSabre likes this.
  12. Konachaan

    Konachaan Ex-Ex Mod Staff Member

    Hi.
    Whilst normally I wouldn’t have a problem adding extra ranks alongside the moderators, the problem comes with the training of these “helpers”.
    As others have said, the mods on this server have a lot of time spent training and a large part of that is the borderline of what is acceptable in terms of language/ caps / spam and what is not.

    We are currently having some pretty in depth discussions regarding the community and the direction we’d like to take the server and how we can build the size of community we used to once have.

    Anyway, my point here is that yes; for the type of spammers who come online and are obviously looking for a ban there is a clear action to take. But for the borderline cases, issuing a temp ban where it is not needed can cause more harm than good. Issuing punishments where they aren’t necessary can harm the growth of the community by driving potential new players away - the type who might break our rules a couple of time because they’re not totally familiar with our boundaries. We like to turn these new players into good members of the community - a good example would be @Ontvlambaar who I believe was once banned :p

    One of the reasons we have not recruited new mods at this time is because we can’t yet commit the time to train the new mods properly. The same applies to mod helpers or assistants.

    My best advice for the obvious cases as others have already stated is to politely explain our rules and if they persist, just report then and stop feeding the trolls.
    This also applies for the players who make a few minor infractions - politely remind them of the rules and we can bring more good players into our community.

    I can assure you that the staff are not idle here, and we are discussing a few ideas on how to improve the atmosphere and playing experience whilst keeping the true Vanilla feel that we’ve all come to love.

    TL;DR
    NO mod helperz at dis time becuz da trainin 2 much and der r other idea we r work on
  13. Ontvlambaar

    Ontvlambaar Pizza addict Staff Member

    Shhh! My sins were forgiven!
    Toaster likes this.
  14. Toaster

    Toaster Active Member

    But did you learn and become better? Looks like it :p
    Ontvlambaar likes this.
  15. Konachaan

    Konachaan Ex-Ex Mod Staff Member

    Nope! Go to your room Mr!
    Toaster, Sammie_gaga and Ontvlambaar like this.
  16. Repomeister

    Repomeister Member

    You know what - this would actually do 99% of what my suggestion was meant to handle. If you added in a way to log those users who had words filtered out, it would be a great solution. It just really makes my blood boil knowing there are little kids reading all of that garbage being spewed. Older people can laugh it off, feel sorry for whatever person feels the need to write such stuff or ignore it and not let it bother them.
  17. rwsender

    rwsender Well-Known Member

    Mine also :p

    A chat filter is a common minecraft plugin, im sure one with logging would also be available!
    One_EyeSabre and Ontvlambaar like this.
  18. winkyboy98

    winkyboy98 Active Member

    I honestly would love to see this position take effect. Training an old timer like myself or one of the other ones of us would be neat. It would for sure help out the community and make everyone experience better. An old timer would not need as much training because all of us old timers have been with the server for quite some time as it is. Also, I will be back to VW for once my new gaming computer is built in the next two days. That is why I have been gone for so long.
  19. One_EyeSabre

    One_EyeSabre Active Member

    Oddly enough there are quite a few chat mods that are player-side that work quite well AND have a log report. I used to use them until I had a better handle on ignoring/reporting and not feeding the trolls. Its too bad that they were only player-side and not designed as a server plug-in though. o_O
  20. Asmeroas

    Asmeroas Member

    Regardless of what gets implemented or not, people definitely need to not feed the trolls. Even if you're just having fun, it's not worth the risk if they decide to go from harmless (but annoying) spam to suddenly terrorizing everyone with bigotry or expletives.

    Also, how we treat minor rule breakers definitely makes a big difference. Someone who made a slight mistake (granted, everyone should know the rules, but some people have an aversion to reading), will generally appreciate a friendly reminder from another player, and that's stuff anyone can do. Just be friendly to each other, don't get upset and don't sling mud back, it just escalates the situation.

    I think the mod system in place already is a good one and the training an absolute requirement to giving anyone any sort of power. So if mini-mods or whatever were implemented, they'd have to be trained, even if they were only granted limited power. Just seems like a lot of hassle for a system that still won't cover all gaps. Because lets face it, no one is here forever. I've been playing on here for... a few years? I don't know, a large span of time. But I disappear for months at a time (minus a few logins to not lose everything). and I've seen plenty of other players take breaks too. So you take all this time to train mini-mods, and then they go on vacations or try out other games or servers, or just get busy with life. Then you have to train more. Not to mention, how many "old-timers" aren't around at all anymore, from getting banned or having disagreements with the other players and staff?

    Comparably, it would be way more sensible (and time saving) to have a chat plugin of some kind to filter or auto warn/boot certain words at least.
    but I'm sure the staff are looking into options themselves and will do their best!

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